Reading Time: 36 minutes
PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT OF THE
REGULAR MEETING OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS
LAKE Don Pedro Community Services District
9751 Merced Falls Road
Monday, September 19th, 2011 1300hrs
Prepared by Lew Richardson from analog and digital recordings.
My best to you and yours, Lew
XXXXX RETURN FROM RECESS XXXXX
Vice President Bill Kinsella: OK, we’ll reconvene the meeting now, it’s 1451. OK, unless, I’ve had a request just at the break, and unless the board objects, I’d like to move Item J, Request from Mike Schartz up to the current topic.
Director Emery Ross: What page?
VP Kinsella: Any complaint, Mark?
Director Ross: What page?
Director Skoien: No I have no problem.
VP Kinsella: Ahh, page 80
Director Ross: 80?
VP Kinsella: Yeah
Secretary Charise Reeves: What do we have board consensus or a motion?
VP Kinsella: Board consensus, OK, Mr. Schartz, it’s all yours
Mike Schartz: Ahh,
Secretary Reeves: Can you come up to the podium please
Director Ross: Can we get some backup from staff on it or something or what?
Director Skoien: If we have any
VP Kinsella: Mr., are you Mr. Schartz?
Mr. Schartz: Mr. Schartz yes.
VP Kinsella: Mr. Schartz has asked ah for time to plead his case to get a water meter and water on your property is that correct?
Mr. Schartz: Yes sir.
Director Ross: Before he speaks though could we get some background from staff so people know what he’s talking about
VP Kinsella: Well you know about it, you know more about it than I do
Interim General Manager Dan Tynan: I believe it is the Poe property
Director Ross: You, he may know more than all of us, I don’t know.
Director Skoien: The Poe property?
Mr. Schartz: It was the Martin or Morasci property
Director Ross: I guess nobody knows so go ahead
Director Richardson: That already has a meter though
Mr. Schartz: It has a box for a meter
(Unknown) It has a box
Mr. Schartz: But there’s no meter
Director Richardson: Mark you said it had a meter
Director Skoien: No, not that property
Director Ross: Not that property
Director Skoien: No way, never
Director Richardson: Well, we’ve got a big problem here
Director Ross: No you don’t have a problem
Director Skoien: The line is in, but it never had a meter in the box
Director Richardson: You said, January 18th, there was a meter on the Morasci property
Director Skoien: No, no
Director Richardson: And it
Director Skoien: there were three on Poe
Director Ross: There’s a box there
Director Richardson: This is going to show why we need verbatim transcripts because I’m going
Director Skoien: No
Director Richardson: That is exactly what you said
Director Skoien: No there’s a meter box and a line on Morasci
Director Richardson: You said it had a meter
Director Skoien: No,
VP Kinsella: Direct the questions to Mr. Schartz
Director Richardson: Is there a meter on the property?
Mr. Schartz: No sir
Director Richardson: OK, great.
VP Kinsella: Has there been a meter on the property that you’re aware of?
Mr. Schartz: To my knowledge, no.
Director Richardson: Oh Boy.
Mr. Schartz: But there has been a pipe put under the road and the box is there (inaudible)
Director Skoien: Yeah the service line is there
Mrs. Poe: It’s been there for years
Director Richardson: Right, there-
Public: (inaudible) vacant lot basically?
Director Ross: Yeah, same kind of thing, a lateral
Director Richardson: When was the ah pipeline put in do you know?
Mr. Schartz: I believe it was in the 80’s, early 90’s, late 80’s (background talking)
Director Richardson: 90’s. Early 90’s.
VP Kinsella: Ahum…
Director Skoien: There
VP Kinsella: Go ahead
Director Skoien: Just to maybe clear Lew up, their box, if you go up that driveway that goes to Poe, its, as your looking up to the property, its on the right of the driveway, and there’s a fire hydrant there, Poe’s were all on the left, up the hill (multiple voices) up the hill remember?
Director Richardson: Both you and Mr. Ross said that ah, the Morasci property had a meter that was separate from the two that were removed from the Poe property
Director Skoien: had a meter box
Director Richardson: the Poe property, no
Director Skoien: had a service
Director Richardson: No you said meter
Director Skoien: Well if I said the word meter it was a mistake cuz I always knew there was no meter in there but the service is there
Director Richardson: Well that’s what I thought until I went back over the ah transcript and then ah, Director Ross on May 3rd in an email to apparently to try and clarify things, says, Morasci’s name does not appear on CSD outside place of use report, but a meter is on her property –
Director Ross: Misspoke
Director Richardson: he later says the same holds true for Shaw.
Director Skoien: I don’t know anything about Shaw
Director Richardson: Well you know, I tell you what, let’s do your thing and then I’d like to do a little thing also that I think is going to go right to what your question is
Mr. Schartz: My question is I’d like to request service
Director Ross: And he’s outside place of use
VP Kinsella: He is outside place of use
Director Ross: Yes he is
Ray Carlson: You talking MID place of use or the district?
Director Ross: MID’s pla, well yeah, it’s not in the original subdivision just is
Director Richardson: And he’s outside the service district boundary as well
Director Skoien: Just like Poe is
Ray Carlson: And the MID place of use?
VP Kinsella: It’s outside MID
Director Ross: The thing is, there is a lateral and always been a lateral there.
Director Skoien: Yeah
VP Kinsella: It’s it’s my understanding that ah there’s a water line that’s close to your piece of property?
Mr. Poe: Yes
Mr. Schartz: There’s a meter box about 25 feet from my property line.
VP Kinsella: OK, and the lady that owns that wants you to pay a portion of that, the cost for that, is that correct?
Mr. Schartz: Well my understanding is, it was an agreement between Sandy Poe and Donna Morasci back in the 90’s to split that fee and then when it come time to pay for it after all the work was done, Donna Morasci backed out on it. Leaving that box, the meter box empty with no meter in it until I’m coming along now to request a meter to be put in it.
VP Kinsella: Oh boy
Director Richardson: Oh boy
Mrs. Poe: And I have a letter from the previous board stating no one would get water until we are reimbursed our cost and that I believe
VP Kinsella: You’re Mrs. Morasci?
Mrs. Poe: I’m Mrs. Poe
VP Kinsella: Oh, OK (laughing) I’m sorry
Mrs. Poe: And I have a, there is a letter Syndie has it on file, I have a copy of it in my, in the truck, but no one could be, get water on, now his property until we are reimbursed because she literally took us to the cleaners.
Director Richardson: So have you been reimbursed?
Mrs. Poe: And so this
Mr. Schartz: She will be reimbursed
Mrs. Poe: and all this
Mr. Schartz: as soon as I’m allowed water
Mrs. Poe: you know, the water company at that time, whoever was there, ripped up my driveway took a line over to her, we had to pay to have it asphalted again, and put that in place for her, for that property it’s already in place, but, she just, at the board meeting I came to, when I requested why she hadn’t paid the contractor which was a man named Ken Nichols, and the water company, what was left on the water company bill, she said my name was on anything was it? And we were left with all that to pay. Our kids had to help us and then, ahum, you know, it, all this, just, didn’t make sense to me that, you know it’s in place, this has been all approved years ago, and so now that he has bought the property, which she did a little finagling around him, ahum, now all this was in place since 1990 or before, and now he’s requesting, all he wants is water. All he wants is water.
VP Kinsella: Hang on a second, Emery had his hand up
Director Ross: Well, the boar, this board strictly does policy, so first of all is there a policy that addresses this? That, that we can fall back on? (Multiple voices) Is there a policy that addresses this? And if not we need to make a policy for these kind of situations so that everybody is treated fairly and it’s always the same and we don’t have to go through this. So, we set policy, we don’t have one, let’s have one, and get it over with, but the problem is gonna come down to as we’ve read on Lew’s blog, he signaled his intentions about this, it’s outside place of use, and he’s going to have a problem with it. Even if there was a meter there.
VP Kinsella: OK, are you done?
Director Skoien: Just a little bit more back ground, this cost for your information Lew was them boring the highway,
Mrs. Poe: That’s right
Director Skoien: they had to bore the highway the deal was, you get water, she gets water you split the cost of tunneling the highway and I don’t know who did that, but anyway, in an old board packet there was a bill that showed the exact cost and how much was going to be Morasci or Martin or whatever her name was
Director Richardson: Around $7,000, wasn’t it?
Director Skoien: So, and that was going to be split, I don’t know if it was down the middle or not but I know there were some more costs
Mrs. Poe: It was 13 almost 14 thousand
Director Skoien: She was gonna help pay, she was going to help pay for it
Mrs. Poe: Oh yeah
Director Skoien: And she never paid, but the way it sits now I think it’s just an operation issue, I mean the line is there, it’s been paid for (Mrs. Poe talking in background) whether or not at the time or not that’s how you settle it, it sounds like you got a little bit of help to collect your money by the district saying no one will get water until you got your money, I don’t know how that came about, but you know, I don’t, that’s between, well that’s what you said right? That they told you
Mrs. Poe: (inaudible) meeting right after she made that statement to me, we lived in Lancaster at the time, we made a special trip up, went to a board meeting here, and we were told because she had not paid the water company for her half
Director Skoien: right
Mrs. Poe: we agreed with a letter stating, in fact they volunteered the letter, because we said, we knew eventually we were going to be retiring up here
Director Skoien: Right, right
Mrs. Poe: and we did not want to have a bad name with the water company the minute we stepped foot on our property, so they, we agreed to pay the water company her half
Director Skoien: right
Mrs. Poe: which we didn’t have to
Director Skoien: No I understand, I know you got ripped off that way
Mrs. Poe: And in return they gave us a letter stating then to protect us, that
Director Skoien: that it would be collected eventually if someone wanted water
Mrs. Poe: that there would be water given to that property after that, our situation was taken care of
Director Skoien: OK, so now that’s a private matter between you two?
Mrs. Poe: Exactly
Director Skoien: OK
Director Ross: and this is 1980 something
Director Skoien: Yeah, so that’s why I think it’s just operations, whatever your normal policy is, the man’s had the service line, doesn’t matter this man or whatever, the property has had the service line put in by this company
Mrs. Poe: Yes
Director Skoien: this district, and it was paid for
IGM Tynan: Being outside place of use that why (multiple voices)
Director Skoien: and now, and now he wants the meter, I don’t
IGM Tynan: Being outside place of use that’s why I brought it to the board
Director Skoien: Right, right so I think it’s more of an operations deal and I don’t see a problem with it really, but
Director Ross: Well the question
Director Skoien: Naw, the one question I have is where are the avail, why, I don’t know if there’s any records of even availability being paid by the other owner, but
VP Kinsella: have to research that, but ah, Dan?
IGM Tynan: I was just going to say another question would be the well, we’re actually getting that tested. Start testing that tomorrow with Elizabeth Binkley, ahm, that’s outside place of use, we’ve got to also make sure that well has the capacity for the outside places of use that we’re doing to keep the contract with MID.
VP Kinsella: Emery you had a question?
Director Ross: (Inaudible) I mean, we need to have a policy about connecting (multiple voices)
VP Kinsella: That’s not the issue now (multiple voices)
Director Ross: Wait a minute, wait a minute let me finish, we need a policy because that’s what this is about, is him being outside place of use and we’ve got Jesse Figuroa who wants to hook up, the district has to say either we hook up people or we don’t, based on something this is what he’s asking for, a decision.
IGM Tynan: Yeah it’s actually the well
Director Ross: Raymond (multiple voices)
VP Kinsella: I would like to get counsel’s opinion because if I remember correctly you said no connections outside place of use, MID place of use.
Ray Carlson: You’re not supposed to have, well if you have any connections outside the place of use you have to be able to supply them with water other than Lake McCLure and that means the Ranchito well. And so, the problem comes if you keep expanding these places that are outside the MID Place of Use will some point come in time, or maybe that point has already come in time, when the Ranchito well cannot supply those, that, that, that’s where you run the problem of running afoul of your, of your contract with MID, and then the other thing you have is, you have a situation where ah you have some parcels that are actually outside the district boundaries. The District boundaries and the Merced Irrigation District place of use are not one of the same, they vary at different points. So now we’re talking about the service outside district boundary and there’s a section in the law that governs LAFCO that says you can do that but before you do that you have to have an agreement that is approved by LAFCO to allow that to happen, so those are two different things, you’ve got potential service outside the district boundaries and service outside the MID Place of Use. Now you’ve got some places that are outside the district boundaries that have been served with water since this water company began as Sierra Highlands back in the 60’s – 70’s and those would be grandfathered in because that section about LAFCO I’m talking about is something that was passed in relatively recent years. But if you, you know, if you want to do it now, currently, everything has, all these factors have to be factored in and adhered to.
VP Kinsella: Thank you,
Director Ross: (inaudible) say something
VP Kinsella: (inaudible) Mark
Director Skoien: Well, I think this shou, is the ultimate grandfathered in, the work, the water was promised by the CSD in whatever year, the work was done and paid for, the man bought a piece of property thinking on the basis of getting water the line is there, there’s no reason for him to think OK I won’t be able to get water, and its, its paid for from way back, and if anything should be considered grandfathered in I think this situation is one. I’d say, go put a meter, I mean that’s my opinion.
VP Kinsella: Lew?
Director Richardson: Ahum, I’d like a little leeway here. I don’t think there’s any way we can consider your situation without revisiting the Poe issue and what was discussed in that.
MRs. Poe: What’s the Poe issue?
Director Richardson: Ahh, the Poe issue regarding the removal of the two meters from your property.
Mrs. Poe: OK good I’m glad you brought that up
Director Richardson: Yeah, because we need to clear some things up because there seems to be different, now let’s see here I’ve got a couple of tags in here somewhere,
Public: Are you talking about MID or District?
Director Richardson: I’m talking about the MID contract with license 11395 which provides us water and uhm (cross talk by Mrs. Poe)
Public: But are they outside place of use are they in the district outside place of use are they MID or
Director Richardson: They are outside MID Place of Use, for you folks that can see, I don’t know how many of you can see this, this blue line represents the MID Contract 11395. We can use water legally inside this area, that’s where it was meant for and for the golf course, that’s what the contract specifically says. Now what has happened through the decades as people have added on they violated the contract with MID which exposes them to some pretty severe fines, I’ve heard $25,000 a day, that’s why they snapped us in 1992 and said no Lake McClure water will go to these outside place of use properties. That’s why the Ranchito well was drilled to offset these 36 we have now, which include of all things, a fire station, an elementary school, a goat ranch, and a cattle ranch, none of the things envisioned in the water license of domestic use. OK, these are the properties we’re talking about right here. As you can see they’re outside the water license, now to get a better view of what’s going on, you can look at this one (turns page on display board) here’s our license, it goes on up, this is all in the license down here is within the license. So we start off with, I made these cute little colored cards here, these are all outside MID POU. Now, Mr. Ross, Mr. Skoien and to a lesser part Vicki Keefe indicated there were three meters on the Poe property.
Director Ross: Correct
Director Richardson: And Mrs. Poe wanted to remove two of them
Director Ross: Correct
Director Richardson: is what we were told
Director Ross: Correct
Director Richardson: we were also told that it was meant to subdivide that 41 acre parcel, for her two sons who were going to build homes. Is that correct?
Mrs. Poe: You finish. (laughter)
Director Richardson: Well, you could answer them one by one, OK, but that’s what this board was told, that there was going to be a subdivision for those. Now during that time, January 18th former president Wes Barton directly asked Emery Ross if the situation involving Morasci had anything to do with the issue of the Poe meters. Ross said it had absolutely nothing to do with Morasci.
Director Ross: That’s absolutely correct.
Director Richardson: OK
Director Ross: It has nothing to do with (Director Skoien interrupts)
Director Skoien: other than the fact that she owed her money (multiple voices, cross talk)
Director Richardson: other than she owed her money
Director Ross: Her removal had nothing to do with Morasci (multiple voices)
Director Richardson: OK, and this is where you come in, because this is evidently the same property
Mrs. Poe: No it’s not
Director Richardson: OK, you’re down on this one now. Now this is the line, this is the water line that goes under the highway, right?
Mr. Schartz: Yes sir
Director Richardson: OK, now, other things that were said, I’ve got a bunch of notes here, ahh, we were told by Mr. Ross
Director Ross: When I looked at that meter box there was a meter in there somebody took it out.
Director Richardson: Well, that’s interesting
Director Ross: Somebody took his meter out, there was a meter when I looked
Director Richardson: That’s interesting
Director Ross: Yep, probably you took it out.
Director Richardson: (Laughing) Oh Emery, you are so silly.
Director Ross: (inaudible)
Director Richardson: Ah, on January 18th ah, Mr. Ross stated that Mrs. Poe’s property, let’s move these here, was completely surrounded by BLM land. As you can see, there’s BLM land to the north, BLM land to the East, it is not here where the highway is, or to the south, so that first statement was absolutely incorrect.
Director Ross: I don’t think I said that
Director Richardson: Well I’ve got the transcript of the tape
Director Skoien: Well what’s it got to do with Poe’s meter (multiple voices)
VP Kinsella: Let, let him finish
Director Ross: What’s it got to do with this (inaudible)
Director Richardson: Later on Mr. Ross stated next to Poe is Martin.
Director Ross: Yes it is, yes it is Martin
Mrs. Poe: Yes
Director Richardson: But we found out later, four months later, after a request for information, that Martin and Morasci are the same people
Unknown: No they aren’t
Director Ross: Yeah they are
Director Richardson: in that same meeting
Director Ross: Yeah they are the same
Director Richardson: Ok, let’s see here, you said they purchased the meters only for this property which I have a hard time with since the two meters were registered with Pattison and Terry which are properties down below Poe.
Mrs. Poe: No they’re not
Director Ross: They’re not
Director Richardson: Well they are in the paperwork in the office, those meters are registered to those properties
Mrs. Poe: That’s true, they’re registered to my property
Director Richardson: No
Mrs. Poe: Yes
Director Richardson: No, the meters
Mrs. Poe: Yes, yes, yes
Director Richardson: Well, then you need to go into the billing
Mrs. Poe: Can I do my illustration?
Director Richardson: Hang on a bit (inaudible) give it all to you. Now ah, let’s see here, surrounded by BLM, now Mark Skoien from his investigation out there said there’s a meter box on the other side of the driveway for another piece of property
Director Skoien: Right, no meter in it
Director Richardson: Mr. Ross said that belongs to Martin
Director Ross: True
Director Richardson: and we know that Morasci is Martin
Director Ross: True
Director Richardson: And then later, let’s see here, ah the request for information for Mr. Ross, four months later, because during that meeting you were representing that there were two different people one called Martin here, and one named Morasci whose property was west of Poes.
Director Ross: I’ve known her for longer than I’ve known you and she’s always had those two names
Director Richardson: You said that, but still it does not change the fact
Director Ross: I may have misspoken
Director Richardson: Well you’ve misspoken a number of times
Director Ross: I may have and so have you
Director Richardson: No I haven’t (Multiple voices, cross talk, laughter from audience)
Director Richardson: Now, you say that Morasci’s property is west of Poe’s is that true?
Director Skoien: West
Director Ross: What was the question?
Director Richardson: You stated at the January 18th and later in the May 3rd email that you sent to directors and not to the billing office, that Donna Morasci’s property is west of the Poe property
Director Ross: I believe that direction is west, yes (background talk) maybe it’s south, maybe
Director Richardson: This is north
Dierctor Ross: Yeah
Director Richardson: This is west (multiple voices) this is south
Director Ross: OK, it’s south of the
Director Richardson: OK, so that was wrong as well
Director Ross: Which direction does HWY 132 run?
Director Skoien: If you go by the
Director Richardson: It’s west
Director Skoien: the highway running (multiple voices)
Director Richardson: Here’s the north symbol, east is over here, west is over here, so, your statements about the names, the property, and its location were all erroneous. OK, what else have we got here, you know, there’s an awlful lot to this but the big thing is
Director Ross: Question is does this man get water
Director Richardson: Beg your pardon?
Director Ross: IS he going to get water? That’s what he’s asking.
Director Richardson: First we need to figure why this was misrepresented to the board on January 18th
Director Skoien: Because of a compass heading?
Director Richardson: No it’s not just a compass heading, it’s making one person two people, someone that he says he’s known all his life and he couldn’t remember her name, and this may not even be the venue for this, to be quite frank, it may not be, maybe for another agency to look at
Director Skoien: Here we go to the Grand Jury again
Director Richardson: And you state, you state, that those two meters removed from Poe had nothing to do with Morasci because she has her own meter.
Director Skoien: Has her own box with a line,
Director Richardson: You both said she had a meter (Multiple voices, cross talk)
Director Skoien: I don’t know if I said meter, (inaudible-multiple voices)
Director Richardson: That’s all I’m going to say, I’ve got the evidence
VP Kinsella: Let’s not argue here, if you want to make a point that’s fine, but don’t speak over anybody else…
Director Richardson: Ladies and Gentlemen this is exactly why verbatim transcripts are necessary when people purport the truth and it is not the truth
Director Skoien: (interrupting) you can always go get a rebat, verbatim transcript, if I said meter
Director Richardson: First you said box, then you said meter
Director Skoien: OK, and I also stated that when I opened that box
VP Kinsella: Welcome to the funny farm
Director Skoien: Wait a minute let me finish, that I opened the box there was no meter in it
Director Richardson: You did not say that Mark
Director Skoien: Yeah, I did (background talking, multiple voices)
Director Richardson: You better watch what you say when you’re interviewed
Director Skoien: OK, I, I said that there was a line there and there was a meter box it had no meter in it when I looked in it, there was three meters going up the Poe’s house, OK?
VP Kinsella: I’d like to move back to Mr. Schartz
Director Skoien: Ok, could I finish my point here, point of order here please, I would suggest if you’re going to do all this little investigation with all these little colored cards, you might have included why there were years of no availability paid to this office and why this office allowed that? That’s all I got to say.
VP Kinsella: Mr. Schartz
Mr. Schartz: Was Donna originally allowed a meter to be put on her property? I’m assuming yes because the pipe was put in correct?
Director Skoien: I have no idea if she ever got a meter
Director Richardson: Ah, that was something that I think Mr. Ross would be more familiar with because he was the one that made the motion about enforce, having CSD enforce your contract, and I think that was in 199 –
Director Ross: Check with Wes Snyder
Director Richardson: 90-something, it was your motion, you’ve spearheaded this thing since the beginning.
Director Ross: And Syndie kept mixing stuff up saying it was surrounded by BLM and you included that to me, she, you look at the staff report Syndie
Director Richardson: NO, no, no there you go again Emery, no, no, that is not correct.
Unknown: No, no
VP Kinsella: OK, let’s
Director Richardson: You don’t know what you’re talking about
VP Kinsella: OK, let’s ah, Mr. Schartz
Mr. Schartz: My point is, is if if Donna Martin or Morasci was allowed a meter box to be put in all she had to do was pay the money due and she could have got the meter, correct? That’s what I’d like to do right now, make it fair and square with her, make it fair and square with you…
Director Richardson: But we can’t do that now
VP Kinsella: Raymond, comment?
Ray Carlson: I think it’s (interrupted by Mrs. Poe)
Mrs. Poe: So they bored through my driveway for nothing, we bored across that highway for nothing.
Director Richardson: Well you have water don’t you?
Mrs. Poe: Yes
Director Richardson: Well then it wasn’t for nothing
Mrs. Poe: But it was meant for two properties
Director Richardson: But we were told by this gentleman and this gentleman that it was for one property
Mrs. Poe: No, then it was for Martin at the time we were doing it as a joint adventure only she didn’t pay for the joint adventure
Director Richardson: Right, right, but we were told all three meters were to serve your property
Mrs. Poe: Let me (inaudible – cross talk between Poe and Skoien)
Director Skoien: Yeah, Morasci is the fourth meter Lew
Mrs. Poe: I’d like to illustrate something
Director Skoien: Lew, Morasci is the fourth meter
Mrs. Poe: cuz I’m coming in defense of my sons
Director Richardson: Sure
Mrs. Poe: Alright
Director Skoien: They were planning on building up there
Mrs. Poe: And I’m not good at this folks, OK, here’s my property (drawing on dry erase board), that’s my property, we had dreams like all of you have dreams, our dream was put a house over here on the hill for us, my husband and I; and my youngest son was going to put a home over here as we got older he could help take care of us; and the other boy was going to put a home over here so they could share in that responsibility. OK, this is Terry, this is Pattison both of which are my sons. When they wanted to do this and we were told by the water company you better get your meters because they’re going to go up substantially. We told the boys we can’t be responsible, as the parents we always were, you gotta pay for yours, you gotta pay for yours, and without the water ever being turned on, these boys have paid a water bill for years. These are my boys. OK. My sons. Well the dream has gone to hell. My husband has Alzheimer’s. Right now we are paying six and seven hundred dollars for his medication because we’re in the famous doughnut hole. OK? With him being in that condition they’re not ready to retire yet, they still got kids in school and college, what am I gonna do? Make my sons give up their life for us? SO, we’re paying on three water meters, all the hell I wanted was, come take two of them out, we can’t afford them anymore. I can barely afford this one. I don’t even get two thousand a month do the math, you think I’m not going to get those pills for that man that worked all his life for me and four boys, he’s almost 85 years old, well you betcha I’ll keep getting those pills no matter how, what I have to go without. That is the whole issue on those. In the rumors I’ve heard, Hank was married to Martin or Morasci or whatever you want to call her, really?
Director Skoien: That’s what you stated that Lew
Mrs. Poe: My son had nothing to do with her. Terry, that’s John, which right now that son, that beloved son of mine is critically ill needing a liver, not because he drank hisself to death, because of a damned gene his father had, it’s called the alpha one look it up on your computers, Alpha one under the ZZ. He’s got cirrhosis right now he just turned 50. I’m going through hell right now with all this and they have her with Shaw. I don’t know who Ramona Shaw is, she has showed up on our papers for years. The woman’s got to be old as dirt if she’s even still alive. So this is bogus. This is bogus. My son Hank is married and has two sons, Martin she wouldn’t like him anyways. (Laughter) I’m being honest, OK. Now I’m sick of my sons being drug through the mud and then we were told when we wanted to get water with Martin, well you gotta bore under that 132 Highway, wasn’t cheap. We were told by the water company this is what we’ll do, this is what we’ll do, they tore up my driveway to put that stupid box over here for her, which she never paid me for, my driveway is the one that’s got the patch in it, and now you’re gonna tell me that box can’t be filled? I mean, give him one of my meters you took out. I didn’t care about that, I didn’t care about, this was the dream has gone. Our dream of what we wanted for us and our kids, it’s gone. You know, and to refuse him with a line that we – is already been there it’s in place, I don’t understand
Director Richardson: Mrs. Poe?
Mrs. Poe: When did it come, when does it come we can’t call up and ask the water company for water?
Director Richardson: Mrs. Poe?
Mrs. Poe: I mean,
Director Richardson: I have a question for you. Those two meters for your sons why are they registered to two separate APNs under their names.
Mrs. Poe: They’re not
Director Richardson: I think you need to check the records in the office
Mrs. Poe: Well they shouldn’t be,
Director Richardson: because these two sons
Mrs. Poe: they paid those water bills
Director Skoien: What does it matter Lew?
Public: Does it matter? Does it really matter, I mean what is all this about ….
Director Richardson: Of course it does (multiple voices-cross talk)
Director Skoien: No it doesn’t (multiple voices-cross talk)
Public: (inaudible) water, here’s (Richardson-Skoien continuing) a man that has bought a piece of property
(Multiple voices, cross talk)
Director Skoien: Exactly
Public: that a board from a long time ago who knows when
Director Richardson: No not that long ago
Public: Approved to have this line come in
Mrs Poe: I don’t understand, Honest to God I don’t understandhow you can sleep at night.
Director Richardson: No I, I can understand it, I don’t much either
Public: The request wasn’t from Poe the request was from Mr. Schartz about a line that was already there, that’s already been paid for, that like you said should have been ultimately grandfathered in for your
Mrs. Poe: Exactly
Public: a (inaudible) a long time ago. (background voices) Ah Lew have you looked back to see what the board transcripts were back then?
Director Richardson: We’re trying to get that information, what we have, what we have got though, is that those meters were registered to two other properties.
Public: OK, it doesn’t, but
Director Richardson: And it was misrepresented to the board and to the public by you, Vicki Keefe, and Mr. Ross.
Director Skoien: No it wasn’t wait a minute
VP Kinsella: OK
Director Ross: Mrs. Poe, Mrs. Poe did you ever split your property?
VP Kinsella: Hey, hey
Mrs. Poe: No
VP Kinsella: Let’s keep it down, let’s
Director Ross: She never split her property
VP Kinsella: Hang on a second
Mrs. Poe: It’s never been split
VP Kinsella: Let’s not
Director Richardson: I understand that
VP Kinsella: Everybody will have their chance to state and say what they want to (background talking) so just one at a time please. (Public talking in background) OK, now Mark
Public: So no investigation was done to (inaudible) I’m sorry I didn’t ask (inaudible) was,…
VP Kinsella: (Laughing) I’m going to turn you in
Sheri: (Laughing) Turn me in
Director Skoien: First of all, if you say I misrepresented it, that’s your opinion, I represented this exact story that you just heard, isn’t that true when I told you about the family plan gone wrong, and second of all, I never represented anything that had to do with that meter on the other side of the driveway, I just wanted to get Mrs. Poe’s two meters gone, cuz she explained the story to me. I did look in the meter box and tell you that there was not a meter in there.
Director Richardson: That is not what you said.
Director Skoien: Yes it is what I said.
Director Richardson: OK, I’ve got the tape
Director Skoien: OK, get the tape
VP Kinsella: OK
Director Skoien: I may have said meter instead of box but
Director Richardson: No, first you said box, and then when the question was getting closer and closer to what meters they were, you threw in and there’s a meter in it and (multiple voices-cross talk) and then Emery Ross did the same.
Director Ross: (inaudible)
Director Skoien: Wait let me finish
Director Richardson: Those are your own words
Director Skoien: No, no
Director Richardson: they are not my words
(Audience background talking)
Director Skoien: Point of order I’m talking, I never said there was a meter in Morasci’s box, you might have said, you might have got confused cuz there were three up on the hill, and you can check the tape, but
Director Richardson: I tell you what folks I’ll bring it here next meeting
Director Skoien: OK you bring it next meeting
Director Richardson: and you can hear your own words
Director Skoien: but you also ought to count, be accountable for yourself, because you in the past have said that Morasci was married to one of her sons.
Director Richardson: I never said such a thing. I don’t know who any of these, I met you one time
Director Skoien: that doesn’t matter
Director Richardson: (To Poe) I met you once
Director Skoien: Lew –
Director Richardson: it does matter you just accused me of something that is absolutely incorrect
VP Kinsella: Alright, alright,
Director Skoien: Now, ok you bring the tape
VP Kinsella: We’re getting off the subject
Director Skoien: if you bring the tape Lew I may have said meter instead of box but I always said there was never a meter, because I went there to look and get a number off it, and there was no meter in that box, ever when I opened it.
Director Richardson: Both of you did.
Director Ross: No, I looked (inaudible)
VP Kinsella: Now listen, listen, I don’t care what
Director Richardson: In fact Emery
Director Skoien: I don’t know when he looked
Director Ross: I looked (Inaudible)
VP Kinsella: Mr. Schartz is waiting for a decision
Director Richardson: That’s the problem all this has to do with that property
Director Ross: No it doesn’t
Director Richardson: And Mr. Ross not only said it, but put it in writing
Director Ross: (inaudible) I saw a meter in there (inaudible)
VP Kinsella: OK, hang on a second
Director Richardson: So you saw a meter and you didn’t?
Director Skoien: I never saw a meter
Director Ross: He looked at it after I did. When I looked at it, a week or two later he looked at it.
Director Richardson: Well then we’re dealing with a crime now aren’t we?
Director Ross: I guess you are (Inaudible)
(Audience talking in background)
Director Skoien: I think we’re making it more complicated than it is
VP Kinsella: Hang on a second
Director Skoien: You know, I
Director Richardson: I’m sorry
Director Skoien: that’s just my opinion
VP Kinsella: Hang on, Victor?
Victor: I have a question, what would happen if the district puts a water meter on his property?
VP Kinsella: We could be in violation of the MID contract
Victor: Who is going to sue you guys?
VP Kinsella: Huh?
Victor: MID is in deep trouble right now, they’re going to ignore it
Director Skoien: There’s no violation
Victor: Even if there is they’re going to ignore it
VP Kinsella: Is counsel, hang on a second, as counsel said you’ve got three different ways to go on this thing, you have to get permission from all three, am I correct?
Ray Carlson: Well I think if you could, if you could, if you could if you know you can supply your outside place of use, ah water uses with your non lake McClure water, right now your only source of non Lake McClure water is that well and as I understand, you’re in the process of very shortly doing a test on that well to make sure we know, you know, how viable it is, and based on its history it looks like its probably a pretty reliable well and the water level is pretty high here, etc., and so forth, so if all of that ah turns out the way we think it is now, then presumably that well will have an ab, be able to be run enough to supply all your outside place of use places ah, or maybe you’ll only be able to some of them, we don’t know yet. So that’s one thing, the other thing is whether it is the business of outside the district itself and that as I said requires ah approval from LAFCO.
VP Kinsella: OK,
Ray Carlson: SO those are the two things that as far as the boundary line issues are concerned.
VP Kinsella: And then we also have the MID contract
Ray Carlson: No that’s what I was just talking about
VP Kinsella: Oh, OK
Ray Carlson: In other words the MID contract recognizes that you can serve outside as long as you’ve got the water to serve outside.
VP Kinsella: OK
Director Skoien: So if the well is sufficient then, do you have a problem with it?
VP Kinsella: WE
Director Skoien: With him getting a meter Lew?
Director Richardson: I have a problem being told the truth in a meeting.
Mrs. Poe: Forget all that
Director Richardson: Oh just forget it? We just lost a director because of that.
Director Skoien: I told the truth Lew
Director Skoien: I may have said meter instead of box, but I know I never
Director Richardson: And I know what you support (responding to audience member)
VP Kinsella: Sheri wants, Sheri wants the floor
Victor: You mean the deck?
Sheri: Uhm I think probably what the board needs to do, I mean Lew if you did so much research, I’m surprised that you wouldn’t have researched what the board decided when this all originally happened because I think that’s where its going to come back to because Mrs. Poe had already paid to have all that work done so what would be the repercussions, if water isn’t provided to them after all that service was done and it was agreed upon way back then.
VP Kinsella: OK
Secretary Reeves: Where this stood as far as motions and stuff that the board had done, in January the Board had unanimously agreed to remove the two meters. In May the board went into closed session on four different issues and came out, reported out, that Poe’s was to be relooked at because there were some issues and it was never brought back. Now I don’t know whether there was a huge packet of information provided at that time, uhm, I don’t whether this has brought Raymond
Director Skoien: (Interrupting and talking over Secretary) Yeah I think there’s issues with the APNs asn’t there Lew?
Secretary Reeves: yeah, had to do with APNs, if this is brought back Raymond, because the board talked to you for counsel regarding that one, can any of that information be brought back in open session?
Ray Carlson: You can talk about it in open session if you want, I mean it’s ah
Secretary Reeves: The question being the APNs, it’s because, I, just kind of hearing, the APN was originally specified to his property it makes it really simple. If he had had a meter already and it was incorrectly removed, then he already had the meter, and shouldn’t have been taken out as being part of Poe. Now I’m not, I’m just saying I remember something being said about APNs because if I’m thinking right there’s something in the records that showed those as being part of Martin Pattison APN and the Terry Shaw APN,
Director Skoien: Yeah
Secretary Reeves: I’m just, I’m just saying
Mrs. Poe: Yeah, I know
Secretary Reeves: what I remember seeing
Mrs. Poe: It was just funny when I heard that
Director Skoien: No I remember the list of the APNs and I don’t know how they
Secretary Reeves: and that’s why, wait, and that’s why the board was supposed to come back to that issue because if they were truly listed as being on the other properties this is kind of a non-issue because of the fact that he would already have a meter that was just pulled and could be put back in –
Director Skoien: All I know is when
Secretary Reeves: It was incorrectly pulled
Director Skoien: there was still three meters in place at Poe’s, only one of them being used obviously the one that went to her house, there was no meter in the meter box on the other side of the driveway cuz I
Secretary Reeves: I’m just letting you guys know where you as a board stood on this matter.
VP Kinsella: OK,
Director Skoien: Now when, or if, or how long before it got removed no way for me to know
Director Ross: I would, I saw it, you know I had a question for Charise
VP Kinsella: Sure
Director Ross: this property whatever you want to call it, was it, was it paying $47 then?
Secretary Reeves: I don’t know that’s not a question for me
Director Ross: OK, cuz that’s really the key, were they paying 47 or were they paying availability? That’s been asked many times even back then, and it’s never been answered
Secretary Reeves: Well then it needs to maybe come back next month, with some additional research done on who was paying what specifically and get the APN numbers, you know, the research into that to get it resolved once and for all as to what APN those properties were tied to, or those meters have been tied to.
Director Ross: And it’s still outside place of use.
Secretary Reeves: Yeah but if the meters were there, then that’s a different issue
VP Kinsella: Go ahead
Director Richardson: Mr. Schartz, were you advised of this before you purchased the property?
Mr. Schartz: I bought the property under the impression that Donna was approved for water, she just never paid her half of the fees, to get the water pipeline under the road so all I had to do was pay that back fee and I could get a meter no problem.
Director Richardson: OK, so you actually bought the property from Morasci?
Mr. Schartz: Correct, with the impression..
Director Richardson: And she did explain to you
Mr. Schartz: yes
Director Richardson: that you would have to pay somewhere around $7,000 to get water?
Mr. Schartz: Yes
VP Kinsella: Ruth, hold on for a second? Victor you had a question?
Victor: Yes I had a question, do I understand the district has a contract with MID for 5,000 acre feet of water?
Director Ross: Correct
VP Kinsella: ahead
Director Richardson: 5,160
VP Kinsella: He can answer that
Victor: I don’t think any problem with that lady going to have any problem dealing with such a minute thing, they going to have major problems right now they need all the help in the world with their proposal to build the dam, I think they likely might ignore the whole darn thing. Why don’t you guys give him the water for Pete’s sake?
Mrs. Poe: It’s more money every month. Give the guy water
Director Richardson: Well,
Mrs. Poe: Revenue
Director Richardson: again, as, as we’ve already discussed we have to see what the sustainable capacity of the Ranchito well is hopefully it going to be very good because,
Victor: (inaudible) I’m sorry
Director Richardson: Victor please, hopefully it will be good because we’ve been artificially recharging with discharge water millions of gallons for decades that goes out there to Kassabaum flats, but the fact of the matter is, the water license was meant for the subdivision and the golf course. Now, the more we increase that Ranchito well if it ever goes dry we are now in the ground well business. And I don’t know how the majority of all our customers, even the absentees that pay their fair, they pay their fair share, well actually they don’t , ahum, but they do pay (laughing) they can’t even vote they have no say in anything, it seems to me if this surface water treatment plant is going to venture off into what MID and the State Water Board considers ground water substitution for surface water transfer you’re talking a lot of money. And you think you’re rates are bad now, get into ground water substitution.
VP Kinsella: Ruth?
Ruth: Yes, if, if this lady paid for the work to be done, digging across the highway and across her driveway to you, I’m saying CSD not personally to you,
VP Kinsella: I wasn’t in town
Ruth: Pardon me? And if he can’t get water don’t you owe her a lot of money plus interest?
Director Richardson: That’s a private contractual agreement. CSD shouldn’t be involved in that what-so-ever.
Mrs. Poe: They charged me, they’re the ones that told me exactly what I had to do.
Director Richardson: But you asked them to do it did you not?
Director Skoien: he means the agreement you had with the neighbor across from you
Mrs. Poe: We went to the water company because we were contemplating a well.
Director Richardson: Right, but your agreement was with Mrs. Morasci right?
Public: But who did she pay the money too?
VP Kinsella: She paid the money to us, then you went after Morasci
Director Richardson: So you have a law suit against Morasci?
Public: No against the water board
Public: Against this water board she has
Director Richardson: Why?
Public: Because they took her money
Director Richardson: We took money to put in a line
Director Richardson: To serve her home
Director Richardson: OK, end of story.
Public: and a (inaudible)
Director Richardson: The rest of that is a matter between you and Morasci
VP Kinsella: OK
Mr. Schartz: You took that money also to fulfill the Morasci property
Director Richardson: Morasci wasn’t receiving water.
Mrs. Poe: Only because she didn’t have a meter it was for her also
Director Richardson: Sounds like you didn’t have,
Mrs. Poe: supposed to be
Director Richardson: sounds like you didn’t have a very good friend.
Mrs. Poe: You know what, you know what, our, my husband and my problem? WE think everybody is as honest as we are, and it’s taken us all these years to figure out they’re not.
Director Richardson: Believe me, I’m figuring it out every single day
Mrs. Poe: No I don’t think you are.
Director Richardson: Oh I am, when you can read it in black and white what someone says then a month later they contradict what they said
VP Kinsella: Let’s ahh, let’s go back to the board, I’m going to end the discussion, we’ve beat this thing to death. Ah, back to the board, what’s the pleasure of the board?
Director Skoien: Well maybe, I, I,
VP Kinsella: I think we need more research on
Director Skoien: I would put a, I would put a meter, but ah, real quickly, if Lew’s research, I think it was before, I agreed it’s a personal you know, you got charged so much, they made a personal deal that the neighbor should pay, that’s a private deal
Mrs. Poe: That’s between (inaudible)
Director Skoien: But I think there was an old receipt in a board packet where it was split now I don’t know if it said Morasci, there was in that old board packet maybe when we were in the closed session
Secretary Reeves: closed session
Director Skoien: there was, wasn’t there a receipt that I think Wes Snyder signed it, that had broke it down separated it, do you remember that?
Director Richardson: And it said they had to annex in before anything could happen, but that annexation never took place
Director Skoien: well that’s a different issue, I agree, but isn’t that, wasn’t that breakdown for one property owes that much and Mrs. Poe owed the other, wasn’t that what that receipt was? Do you remember? It was in, it was in the pac, it was in the paperwork.
Director Richardson: Well if it is really shouldn’t be discussing it from a closed session
VP Kinsella: I don’t think, I don’t think we could make a real decision because there’s so many questions here.
Director Skoien: Well I personally think you make it more complicated than it should be but
VP Kinsella: Well, I’d like
Director Skoien: whatever the board
VP Kinsella: I’d like to get it resolved
Director Richardson: Well I think we should if nothing else, wait to see what, how the Ranchito well tests out, maybe it will come out with such
Director Skoien: Well that
Director Richardson: flying colors another connection wouldn’t really make any difference
Director Skoien: Yeah, that’s not a bad idea
Public: when is that going to take place?
Director Richardson: That’s starting tomorrow
Director Skoien: Three what?
VP Kinsella: Ten days isn’t it?
Director Skoien: Three tests?
Director Ross: Thirty days isn’t it
IGM Tynan: No, no, it’s a ten day test and next month we’ll have Mr. Figueroa and some other gentlemen (inaudible)
Director Skoien: And we’ll have that information by then?
IGM Tynan: Yeah, so we can also put
Director Skoien: that might be a good idea too
VP Kinsella: So would you, give me a recommendation, what do you guys want to do?
Director Skoien: Let’s ah put it off till the well results are in?
Director Ross: Raymond says you can’t hook up
Director Richardson: And, and further research on the Poe matter
VP Kinsella: How does that sound to you?
Director Ross: What did you say (inaudible)
Unknown: We’ll try and find those receipts
VP Kinsella: (Laughing) it’s a mess
Director Skoien: they were separated
Public: That’s sad, that’s sad Michael
Director Skoien: And I think Wes Snyder signed it
Public: So sad
Director Richardson: Well it’s sad that you’re caught up in something that started a long, long, long time ago.
Mrs. Poe: It’s a shame the, the water company should have just told my husband and I from the get-go, no we’re not going to service you, dig a well.
Director Richardson: Right, well (multiple voices)
Mrs. Poe: That was our big mistake (multiple voices)
Director Richardson: That’s right
Director Skoien: they needed customers back then
Director Richardson: Mrs. Poe you are absolutely correct, (Poe taking in background) if previous boards had abided by the license contract
Mrs. Poe: We were hoodwinked
Director Richardson: Yeah, yeah I think you were (multiple voices)
Director Skoien: they were just trying to sign up customers
Director Richardson: I think you were, a lot of people were. You know, we had customers in here who told us they felt like they were forced into the district. (multiple voices-cross talk)
Mrs. Poe: (inaudible) that’s like how we were forced into three meters
VP Kinsella: (inaudible) it be a better
Secretary Reeves: Bill is it consensus of the board then to put this off until the Ranchito well results are in
Director Skoien: I think so
VP Kinsella: Emery?
Director Ross: I’m not saying anything because he said he’s going to the Grand Jury
Director Richardson: I never said such (multiple voices-cross talk)
Director Ross: Yes you did
Director Richardson: there we go again, there we go
Director Ross: I’m not saying anything
Director Richardson: There we go
Director Ross: I will not say (inaudible, multiple voices)
Director Skoien: I would agree to wait
VP Kinsella: OK, Lew would you agree to wait?
Director Richardson: I, I would agree to wait ah for the Ranchito well testing out but I think we also need further research in our billing office to find out exactly what happened with these properties.
Secretary Reeves: OK
VP Kinsella: It’ll be three, three
Director Ross: What?
(multiple voices continue from audience)
Secretary Reeves: Consensus reached to wait, put this on next month’s agenda after the well results,
VP Kinsella: Right
Director Skoien: the well tests
VP Kinsella: And ah, director Ross, ah you want to abstain?
Director Ross: Yeah
Secretary Reeves: OK, and then as far as ah, as far as, ah the other issues, is there any direction the board was supposed to resolve this with Poe and he, Director Richardson is wanting to have stuff put in is that on this next agenda as well, or is that a done deal?
Director Skoien: There’s nothing to resolve with Poe is there?
Director Richardson: Oh yeah there is.
Director Skoien: Why?
Secretary Reeves: To determine
Director Richardson: We’ve got contradictory statements here
VP Kinsella: OK, let’s let’s ah put it back on the
Secretary Reeves: OK, so that some of that, that’s information that was in closed session regarding APN numbers and stuff like that brought to open session?
VP Kinsella: Yeah, questions on that too
Director Ross: I wasn’t at the closed session
Secretary Reeves: Well then that will give you information as well Emery, so that everybody (multiple voices)
Director Skoien: different APNs (Multiple voices, cross talk)
Director Skoien: would there be some kind of official (inaudible-multiple voices) property subdivided Lew?
VP Kinsella: Say again?
Director Skoien: Wouldn’t there be some kind of official (inaudible, cross talk, multiple voices)
Director Richardson: There are three separate parcels
Director Skoien: Well I know you’ve got three different APNs (inaudible, multiple voices) subdivided
Director Richardson: Three meters were on Poe’s property two of them (multiple voices)
Secretary Reeves: Hey guys, guys (Whistles) get back to the meeting, Mark are you OK with that being on the agenda as well, consensus
Director Skoien: I have no problem
Secretary Reeves: to bring back the information
VP Kinsella: OK,
Director Skoien: making it too complicated
VP Kinsella: Hey Sheri, hang on, hang on a bit,
Secretary Reeves: We’re back to the, so Mr. Schartz, you’re, you will be on next month’s agenda on the 3rd Monday at one o’clock
Mr. Schartz: OK
Secretary Reeves: so that we should have the well results back in by that point.
VP Kinsella: We should have more information for you and do a better investigative action on it
Mr. Schartz: Should I leave contact information with Syndie?
Secretary Reeves: Yes please, if you could leave a phone number because I had left you a message, in fact some of the paperwork is in there for you I don’t know if you ever got voicemail
Mr. Schartz: I did but I didn’t know who it was
Secretary Reeves: OK, uhm, let me walk outside with you for a second
VP Kinsella: Ruth I shut it down are you talking about, want to talk about this one again?
Ruth: Well I just wanted to make a comment she, she said that there might have been a meter there and it was pulled in error
VP Kinsella: That’s why we have to find, that’s what we got to do, we got to get more information on it.
Director Ross: I saw a meter when I looked at it I was surprised when he said there wasn’t. (inaudible) Then I went back with him there wasn’t a meter.
VP Kinsella: OK, let’s get back up here.
Public: (multiple voices) Bill, Bill,..
VP Kinsella: I didn’t see you raise your hand earlier.