PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT OF THE
REGULAR MEETING OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS
LAKE Don Pedro Community Services District
9751 Merced Falls Road
Monday, September 19th, 2011 1300hrs
(209) 852-2331
Prepared by Lew Richardson from analog and digital recordings.
My best to you and yours, Lew
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Public: Yeah, I had it up (inaudible)
Wes: Before you said some of these dates on some of these things that are really controversial that the facts are not, they haven’t been discussed in enough detail you could sit down and have a sensible discussion, (inaudible) why don’t you have these meetings in a special meeting instead of regular meetings? You just, you know, it burns down the whole, the whole operation, and sets it up so that the attitudes of the people then are, are, are poor, ah everything is just wrong on it, I’m not, I’m not trying to be critical, you know, its just that this would be a good policy to, if it’s a tough deal go to a special meeting.
VP Kinsella: I would like, I would to have a special meeting on this one, but let’s get through this first and then ah, discuss, director’s comments I think would (inaudible). Where Did Charise go?
Director Richardson: Ah, outside
(Background talk as some leave meeting room)
(Multiple voices)
VP Kinsella: Thank you, (inaudible) Charise was just there
Director Skoien: She’s getting some information from that guy….
Multiple Voices
VP Kinsella: Say again
Victor: Take a break
VP Kinsella: Ah, not another one
(Background voices in audience)
VP Kinsella: All set? OK we’ll go back up to Item G, it’s on page 56. Advertise for the board.
XXXXX STOP TRANSCRIPT XXXXX
SORRY, BUT THIS BLOW BY BLOW VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING IS TAKING WAAAAAY TO MUCH TIME TO PREPARE AND THERE ARE SOME OTHER PRESSING MATTERS THAT NEED IMMEDIATE ATTENTION.
(No doubt reading such long and monotonous material isn’t all that much fun either.) In an effort to make this as accurate as possible I have been using three pieces of equipment to do this transcription stuff: a digital hand held recorder, a computer – for better quality sound playback, and an audio cassette tape player to listen to the official CSD audio recordings. Usually the hand held digital will pick up audience participation better than the board recording equipment because when audience members do not come up to the podium it is very difficult to understand everything said due to the distance from the microphone, normal background noise and the inevitable multiple voices at the same time. This process is much too slow considering the whole point is to get accurate and timely information to LDPCSD customers so they might better understand what is happening within this Community Services District.
The most reasonable course appears to be to only transcribe those portions necessary to clearly understand some of the reasoning behind particular discussions and/or decisions made in these public meetings. So, with that in mind, agenda Items not transcribed will be listed just as they were on the original meeting agenda with a brief summary of action taken (if any) enclosed within brackets [ ]. OK, here we go:
XXXXX RESUME MEETING XXXXX
AGENDA ITEM G: FILLING BOARD VACANCY (10 Minutes), Request – To approve steps required to fill the Lake Don Pedro Community Services District Board of Director’s vacancy
[BOARD APPROVAL TO POST VACANCY NOTICE: VOTE UNANIMOUS]AGENDA ITEM H: WASTEWATER METER READING (15 Minutes), Request – By D Tynan to follow up on bill containing the error with wastewater meter reading
[Continuing process to obtain payment – subject will return on next month’s agenda]AGENDA ITEM I: RESPONSE REGARDING DISTRICT PHONE CALLS (15 Minutes) Request – In response to a Board request, analysis and response to complaint by Kalvin Gile about District phone calls
TRANSCRIPT OF AGENDA ITEM I:
VP KINSELLA: Item I, response regarding district phone bills, Charise are you going to do that or is…?
Charise Reeves: Dan is
IGM Tynan: Actually, yeah, I was going to start off when Charise finished up with the (inaudible)
VP Kinsella: It’s going to be a bifurcated thing?
IGM Tynan: Yes, ah, after spending about 75 hours going through Kalvin’s, Mr. Gile’s, report, found a lot, a lot of mistakes. So, called about every number a lot of them, we do have customers that live in Colorado, we do have customers that live in ah, Oregon, ah, I’ll just go over a few things. An 11 o’clock phone call was from an on-call employee that was calling a past employee for technical support; the plastic surgeon phone call that’s one number away from, what was it? Colorado pipe, Charise?
Charise Reeves: Mountain States
IGM Tynan: Mountain States Pipe, it’s one number off, honestly miscalled.
VP Kinsella: So it was a misdialed
IGM Tynan: It was a misdial, yeah. And we, Charise can, she did a very described report on it and like I said there are a lot of mistakes, OK Charise.
Charise Reeves: OK, Dan had asked me to go over this, the, the results of this. First off everybody received this, and this spreadsheet and this is what was going out in part two of the packet, for those of you who never got part II, it ended up being 52 meg when we scanned it in and the email said “no way”. Ahum,
VP Kinsella: Would you like you’re comments for the record?
Charise Reeves: Oh yes, I’m going to read the staff report for the record. So everybody’s got this, I took the phone bills and went directly to, and then tried to re-create what Kalvin had come up with, but I’ll read, I’m going to read this staff report for the record because this was made such a big deal as far as the, how it was presented so that community members can all hear the response as well.
Unknown: What page is this?
Charise Reeves: OK, this is on page 72:
Background: On May 18th, 2011 Interim General Manager Dan questioned several phone calls on the monthly telephone bill. In the office at that time was Financial Administrator C Reeves and Director Keefe. By the end of the day, the District had received a Public Records Request from Kalvin Gile requesting 4 months of telephone records. The issue of having a problem with use of District phones had never been brought to the Board as a problem.
On July 12th, 2011 at the Special Board Meeting for the Budget Presentation, Kalvin Gile presented his findings. The item was not on the agenda yet his 5 minute limit was waived, and he was allowed to discuss accusations against staff as part of the budget discussion. He presented a packet with the phone records duplicated. Normally when items are passed out at Board meetings, a copy is put with the packet for the District’s records. Kalvin told the Directors these were his personal copies, and they could not keep them. The Secretary was not given a copy for District records, even upon request. The Interim General Manager was given a copy with the statement, “I’ll hang you if this gets out.”
Office staff was attacked with little or no mention of plant staff contributing to the phone calls. There are phones in the office, the plant, and the Boardroom building. All staff members make phone calls. In particular, staff member Marchesiello was specifically targeted with her husband’s reverse lookup address and phone number being passed out to the audience and multiple mentions of calls to New York and Ohio where she has family. This is just one more example of the hostile work environment found at the District. Per Dan Tynan an email to Interim General Manager Dan Tynan and Board Members from staff member Marchesiello was sent due to concerns of a public member representing himself as a distric – as a representative of the District. This email was sent prior to Kalvin’s presentation and is included following this report, with her consent. It has raised questions how a public member/Kalvin received this same email that was addressed only to the Interim General Manager and Board Members and whether or not this was why she was targeted in the meeting.
Staff was directed by Director Keefe to research this issue. Multiple staff member have put in over 75 hours to research this issue to defend the accusations made. Staff duplicated the phone records, compared them against Kalvin’s document given to the Interim General Manager, and researched phone numbers. True, if taken as presented, the issue is “alarming”. However, upon further research, many of the items stated are not accurate. Staff is allowed two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch each day, and the District does not incur any additional charges for the calls in question. He found that there were never more than one hour of calls in a single day indicated by any single employee. Many employees volunteered the numbers of their family as part of the research.
Findings:
The District has 3,195 lots or possible customers. A large majority of our customers are residential customers, not businesses. We document some customer’s phone numbers, home and work, which were those verified as customers. However, many customers will leave alternate or business numbers for staff to return calls. Kalvin questioned the number of cell phones called. Many residential customers use cell phones, and may not even have a land line. It is not unusual. Return phone numbers are not always documented in their file.
Kalvin stated he found 705 unlisted numbers. Staff found only 314 after comparing the lists and doing additional reverse lookups in the yellow pages.
Kalvin stated 302 calls were less than 60 seconds indicating staff was calling people and saying “call me back”. The actual breakdown was 1,428 calls for 60 seconds or less including 157 faxes, 774 calls from the SCADA system, and 6 from the 800 number, leaving 491 other calls for 60 seconds or less. Of these, only 44 were identified as calls to family members/girlfriends, and many were after hours, most likely informing them they were still working and would be late.
Kalvin was not initially aware that the 713 phone calls made to a single number were to the on-call pager, and once staff informed him of this, he suddenly changed direction and the SCADA system being broken became an issue. The SCADA system makes a call to the pager upon an alarm being triggered. It hen makes additional calls every few minutes to phone numbers listed on the on-call rotation list. This continues until the on-call operator acknowledges the alarm by pressing “1” on the phone, if reached by phone, or by pressing a key on the computer, if responding by computer. The phone records indicate three phone numbers were called. Upon research, it appears the total number of SCADA calls were 779, and they were for approximately 232 alarms. True, this is still a large number of alarms; however, these occur at any time of the day including working hours over a 4 month period. The Board of Directors have already authorized the replacement of the antennae as part of the twenty -, that should be 2012 CIP projects which may reduce the number of alarms, hopefully, eliminating those caused by locations going off-line.
Specific calls questioned:
McNamara Sports – purchased t-shirts and hats for plant staff
KOA Campgrounds – contacted regarding the Sanitary Survey
23 minute call to Illinois – staff contacted Fellowes Inc regarding the current warranty and possible repair of the office binder
The plastic surgeon in New York – obvious misdial: the Plastic Surgeon’s phone number was 716-634-5555. The call was made at 1:01 pm on 3/10. The calls before and after were to Mountain States Supply, one of the District’s suppliers, with the phone number 719-643-5555 and were made at 12:58pm and 1:02pm on the same day.
Calls to Dayton, OH were questioned – there were only 3 and 2 of them were for Wright-Patt Realty
Call to Hicksville, NY – there was a single 30 second phone call to a family member
2 calls to New York where the time zone was questioned there –both were faxes
The unknown trucking company – Staff volunteered information that the number questioned was her husband’s cell phone. This was not unknown to Kalvin as it showed on a draft copy of his documents as Rich Reeves Trucking, and he contacted the number and verified with Mr. Reeves the number belonged to Richard Reeves Trucking. He identified himself as doing a “cell phone audit”. It would seem obvious that the number belonged to a family member as they both had the same last name.
The call at 11:00 at night was an employee on-call calling for technical support.
77 Out of state calls:
10 were district bus – identified district business
34 were faxes
4 were customers
3 were in-coming to our 800 number
1 was an employee family member volunteered by S Marchesiello
1 was the obvious misdial to the plastic surgeon and
24 others were un – were other or unknown
During research it became obvious some customers leave their work number as some of the numbers verified included Armell & Hurtle, Balloon Enterprises, Mariposa County, realty companies, and Sonora Medical Center.
Kalvin questioned the massive amounts of employee time spent on phone calls when the District had just raised rates, increasing his water bill. Yes, employees do use the phone. It is a huge part of their job. However, the amount of employee time spent on personal phone calls does not appear to have contributed to increasing the water rate. Instead, a contributing factor might be found during Kalvin’s term on the District Board when two loans were accepted costing the District $194,154.05 each year for the past 5 years with $119,006.08 continuing through 2026 and litigation was initiated which has currently cost the District almost $75,000 in legal fees that can be directly connected and an additional $30,000 incurred between July 2008 and November 2008 for a total of $1,075,770.
Staff documented 2,149 phone calls during 4 months of operation
782 – District business calls easily identifiable including
195 – verified customers
186 – faxes
401 – technical support or businesses the District uses
779 – SCADA calls
78 – Business calls which may or may not be District related
141 –Personal calls to families/girlfriends
314 – Unlisted or unknown
8 to the 800 number for incoming phone calls
6 – obvious misdials based on calls before/after, and
2 –disconnected numbers
437 calls made on non-work days, of those 437, 426 were calls made out of the SCADA system,
11 were other calls, of those 11
1 was a fax
2 were business calls
3 were customers
4 were personal calls and
1 was other or unknown
462 calls were made before or after normal working hours being 7:30am to 4pm. Plant staff is on call 24 hours a day. The two salaried employees effectively are on a 24 hour time clock. The other office person regularly works before and after normal “office” hours of 7:30 to 2:30, so calls made before and after work hours are not unusual.
A 116 of these calls were made within 1 hour before or after working hours
390 calls out of the 462 were calls made out of the SCADA system
72 were other calls, of those
5 were faxes
26 were business calls
4 were customers
1 was the 800 number in-coming phone calls
19 were personal calls to family and girlfriends
17 were other and unknown
Errors found on Kalvin’s spreadsheet:
125 entries were listed in Kalvin’s document as unlisted but upon a reverse lookup in the yellow pages were found and documented
59 entries had the wrong phone number
15 entries had the wrong date
17 entries had the wrong time
7 entries had the wrong length
19 calls were missing all together
268 entries were incorrectly coded tan which meant they lasted 60 seconds or less
449 entries were incorrectly coded green which meant they were made before or after hours which were 86 Mondays, 124 on Tuesdays, 93 on Wednesdays, 71 on Thursdays and 75 on Fridays
Final statement, for those who do not trust the research of staff members, staff would be more than willing to allow anyone to come to the office and compare the spreadsheets put together by Kalvin and staff versus the phone records. In addition to that was the email sent from staff member Marchesiello to Interim General Manager Dan Tynan and Directors, and it states Good morning Dan and Directors, please note the attachment was typed at home and not on company time. Her email states,
IGM Tynan: Charise, we don’t have to (inaudible) read (inaudible)
(Multiple audience voices disapprove of reading email)
Charise Reeves: OK
(Multiple voices)
Director Richardson: Well can you put it in the record and just put it in the record for the next time.
(multiple voices)
Charise Reeves: Can do
NOTE: THE EMAIL WAS CONTAINED WITHIN PAGES 77-79 OF THE “BOARD PACKET” (105 pages). SUCH PACKETS ARE MADE AVAILABLE FOR ATTENDEES OF MEETINGS.
There have been instances in my past employment here at LDCSD where I willfully ignored negative actions and efforts of both my fellow employees and board members, in the interest of getting along and getting the job done. A new occurrence has arisen which I cannot privately ignore. Because of this incident I am extremely upset.
This letter is being sent to you as a response to an incident that occurred Friday June, 17th, 2011. Although the incident happened on June 17th the true beginning occurred while I was on vacation.
While on vacation my system Connie Latronica, phoned me, concerned she asked me if “everything was ok.” She explained that she had received a call, at her home, from Dan Tynan, he identified himself as being from the District and he asked who she was, and whether she was at a residence or business. Not understanding why he would be asking her questions, or who he was at the time, she ended the call. When Connie informed me of this conversation, I told her I was due back to work the next day and I would find out what that call was about.
The next day, I immediately approached Dan and asked if there was a problem. He informed me he had been reviewing the phone bill and in the presence of Charise, and Vicki Keefe he stated that there where many calls to the same number.
I then explained to Dan that that number belonged to my sister Connie, and that each morning, while I am working, I call Connie to see what is going on with a relative who is suffering some severe health issues. I further explained if he checked he would see that the duration of each call was very few minutes and in some instances only 30 seconds. At that point he said there was no problem and I believed all was well.
Dan has been there many times in the office while I made these calls. He said he had problems with someone being on the phone a lot and he wanted to see if the calls belonged to them. I have worked at the district for eight years and I have seen and am well aware, of the detail included on our phone bills. If I was trying to be deceptive, I would have not used the company phone, but would use my cell phone, as some employees have done. The cell phone issue, being problematic, has caused Dan to install a loosely enforced policy, forbidding cell phones at work. In eight years of work I have never brought my cell phone to the office.
I do not believe I was doing anything wrong in my making these short telephone calls. I did not interrupt my work. In fact most days I do not take the two 15 minute breaks which are allowed by law, I am a self motivated worker and I pride myself in doing a full day’s work, each and every day!!
Shortly after my conversation with Dan a former Board member and current rate payer (Kalvin Gile) requested a copy of that phone bill. I believe this was done through an email to Charise, but I cannot say for certain at this time. This made me curious, wondering how a public member would have heard about the phone bill. I did ask both Dan and Charise if either of them had anything to do with Kalvin knowing about it. They both told me no. When Vicki stopped by the office, I asked her in front of Dan as well. Her reply was “what phone bill?” I stated “the one Dan mentioned the other day when you were in the office.” I don’t believe an answer was given.
This is one of my concerns, how and why did someone feel it necessary to get a former board member, and current rate payer involved in intercompany office matters. Who authorized this?
I did suggest to Charise, that attorney Ray Carlson be contacted to make sure we can give a public member a copy of the phone bill. This was not done not for my own benefit, as I had volunteered they were my calls, but rather to protect the District. Ray’s response was “yes”. Kalvin did indeed receive a copy of the phone bill. In fact, I cannot say for certain but if you look at our general ledger account you may see that Kalvin was not charged, nor paid for these copies as any other rate payer would do.
Following this, Dan had let me know Kalvin was questioning the phone bill, and he informed Kalvin that certain numbers represented calls made by me. I asked again if this was a problem, he again stated “no”.
Later, Dan told me Kalvin had requested him to research more of the numbers on that phone statement. I don’t believe a public member can direct the General Manager in this manner. I asked, again if there was any issue with my calls and again Dan said no!
Friday June 17th I received a call from my sister stating that a man named Kalvin Giles keeps calling her house. He stated “we are investigating some phone calls they had received.” She asked him who is “we”? He told her “Kalvin Gile, from the District.” As I stated my family is dealing some personal family health issues, and my sister was quite upset about these continuous calls and in addition concerned for me. I told her I would handle the situation so she would not have to be harassed anymore. I immediately phone Kalvin at home and told him the number that he has been calling is my sister’s home, and I already dealt with Dan about this, I should not be explaining this to him and I told him to stop. I stated I thought this was taken care of. He said he would stop calling, though his demeanor was smug and condescending.
In summary:
I don’t know why after I fully explained a series of very short calls to my General Manager, a public rate payer continued to call a telephone number already identified. I am sure it is legal to have the telephone statement; however I am not so sure it is legal for a private person to use those telephone numbers. If Mr. Giles is working for the board or the District, when did that begin and who authorized it and can a rate payer assign work to a General Manager?
Why are there so many leaks to individuals of district business? Who is responsible for all these gossipy leaks and what is the motive for doing so?
Let’s have 100% honesty and transparency, if you have issues lets air them, but please stop this silly game playing. I expect no further annoyance to my family members, and would appreciate a timely response and action to the issues in this letter.
Cynthia L Marchesiello
BACK TO THE SEPTEMBER 19th, 2011 BOARD MEETING
Director Richardson: Wow, sure seems like an awful lot of time was actually wasted by our employees because of an accusation by Mr. Gile that evidently was based on pretty much erroneous information –
Kalvin Gile: Mr. Chairman
Director Richardson: I ah, I’m speaking right now, you’ll have your turn. You know, when you brought this up, it should have never been allowed to begin with, and you were attacking employees basically making accusations they weren’t doing their jobs, they were costing this district money, and because of that, we have incurred a loss. We have lost a lot of work hours, and like I said, for the record, I’d like the response, is there is any – would you consider it appropriate for an apology for that?
Public: No
Kalvin Gile: Mr. Chairman can I ask for a two minute break
VP Kinsella: Wait a minute, wait a minute, are you finished?
Director Richardson: Yes
Kalvin Gile: he asked me a question and I want to provide him with an answer
VP Kinsella: OK, you can do that now, I wanted to make sure he said
Kalvin Gile: (inaudible) out in the car, the car right outside the front door. Victor, you want to give me a hand? It’ll take me longer
(Multiple voices, conversations- waiting for Mr. Gile to bring boxes of material into board room. Ray Carlson questions property location of Poe on map.)
Kalvin Gile: It’s easier, actual printed white page in reverse, page by page for each, each phone call that was made.
Director Ross: I didn’t hear you Kal
Kalvin Gile: These are the phone records, each phone number that was called a white page phone print, please don’t do that (laughter). The district uses used Yellow Pages, I used White Pages, if there’s a difference, did I make mistakes? Probably. Is the district more accurate than I am? Maybe, maybe not.
What happens when each phone call was made is there’s a printed phone number white pages. Are you right or are you wrong? Can you prove it? I’ve got them to prove I was right.
Director Ross: What does that mean Kal?
Kalvin Gile: It means that when you reverse, you put a phone number in its going to come back and tells you who it belongs to, if it’s a land line it just says land line, if it’s a page it just says land line, if it’s a FAX it just says land line. There’s no way for me to know, or anyone else to know what it is, you can’t determine by going, at least to White Pages and looking it up, but there is one, two, three, four, and there’s three here, four more
Director Ross: What? Boxes?
Kalvin Gile: White Pages
Director Ross: And how many in a box?
Kalvin Gile: Ah, the total was on the ah, the
Director Ross: (Inaudible) the sheet
Kalvin Gile: …presentation, so whatever, whatever
Director Ross: (Inaudible)
Kalvin Gile: was put on there was one brought down
Director Ross: This sheet here that you did
Kalvin Gile: Yeah that sheet there. In addition that sheet is marked draft work product. Everybody’s familiar with what draft work product means?
(Multiple voices)
VP Kinsella: Oh Boy
IGM Tynan: You give us information and then we’re not supposed to do anything with it?
Kalvin Gile: No, I give it, I didn’t pass it out to the board because it’s draft, it’s work product. I give it to you you were the Ge, Interim, (inaudible) might as well say General Manager, Interim General Manager, your, my view, your biggest responsibility was finding out it has any merit.
IGM Tynan: It was so wrong.
Kalvin Gile: Well I’m telling you, there there are errors, no question
IGM Tynan: There was a lot of errors, that’s, that’s ah
Kalvin Gile: There is, additional, ah, I just printed out one copy of the 572-8002 it tells me
IGM Tynan: That’s a, that’s a pager
Kalvin Gile: I understand that
VP Kinsella: Well, what do you want, what do you want to do with these boxes?
Kalvin Gile: I’ve got documentation that says you are inaccurate. You have documentation that says I’m inaccurate, I’ll agree that I probably made mistakes.
Director Richardson: How much did it cost the CSD with what you’re saying? Your estimate?
Kalvin Gile: How much is it costing the CSD and I disagree with the philosophy: ah we pay the phone bill and it didn’t cost anything, my foot it doesn’t cost anything.
IGM Tynan: Out of four months
Kalvin Gile: Listen to me.
Director Richardson: Out of four months how much do you think this cost?
Kalvin Gile: Let me finish. Please, I didn’t interrupt you.
Director Richardson: Sure, sure
Kalvin Gile: The four months, now you made me lose my train of thought, ah, ability to state that it didn’t cost us anything because it’s paid for anyway, if you applied that to the truck out there that means anybody can drive that truck because it’s paid for anyway.
IGM Tynan: No
Director Richardson: No, I’m just trying to figure out what this, what this will cost us in relation to what you say…
VP Kinsella: OK, OK
IGM Tynan: IF you take four months and times them by eight employees, or seven employees, and they get one hour break a day, which they never did, I did not find one day where they went over an hour for a personal phone call.
Kalvin Gile: That’s still inappropriate, you cannot make one personal phone call
IGM Tynan: If they are on 15 minute break
(Inaudible, multiple voices)
VP Kinsella: There’s no reason, there’s no reason…
Kalvin Gile: (inaudible) on their phone, their building, their light switch, but you should not be doing it on company time.
VP Kinsella: OK, OK, when did you not make a personal phone call on company time?
Kalvin Gile: I owned my own business it didn’t matter.
(Cross talk)
VP Kinsella: I’m just asking
Kalvin Gile: I didn’t
VP Kinsella: Well if you don’t, never mind
Kalvin Gile: Going on, let me finish the presentation since you brought this subject up, I didn’t bring it up. I was perfect perfectly willing to work through it, here are draft work product and it’s marked. These are our
Charise Reeves: (Inaudible)
Public: Point of order, point of order
Director Ross: Who’s asking a point of
Director Richardson: Somebody had a point of order, or something?
Public: Yeah
IGM Tynan: Again, this is the same, this is the same stuff
Kalvin Gile: Wait a minute let me finish
Public: I don’t believe the two of you should be discussing while he’s making his presentation
Director Richardson: And you folks shouldn’t be talking about that either so, let’s, let’s give him his undivided attention
Kalvin Gile: This document being district work hours are from 7:30am to 4pm after that and before that we’re paying overtime to (inaudible). You shake your head no?
Charise Reeves: Well, for myself
Kalvin Gile: I can’t speak to you
(Multiple voices)
Kalvin Gile: This is just a list of before and after the work day,
VP Kinsella: OK, you’ve made, you’ve made your point I think Kal
Kalvin Gile: I, I can I finish making?
VP Kinsella: Not much longer
IGM Tynan: (inaudible) comes in early sometimes
(Multiple voices)
Charise Reeves: Yeah, I need a copy for the records
VP Kinsella: OK, any questions from the floor?
Victor: I have a question, who authorized those phone numbers to be given up to Giles?
IGM Tynan: I spoke with, at first Raymond and then I spoke to the D.A., cuz this had gone to the DA.
Victor: You understand that it is a misdemeanor to give that information?
(Multiple voices arguing)
IGM Tynan: Ah the DA, said, the DA said I could.
(Multiple voices disagreeing)
Victor: Yes it is. Call any company and (inaudible)
Public: The content is what is protected not the number
(Arguing between audience members)
Public: What you do with them.
Unknown: Raymond? Legal opinion?
Kalvin Gile: IS the content protected or is the number?
Raymond Carlson: A bill is the bill, it’s just like my legal bill, that’s a public record, that’s the way I look at it. So somebody made a public record request for all the bills from XYZ company, attorney, phone company, whatever, that, that those are public records.
Victor: It is not counselor. I called, I called Tuolumne Utility District and I said could I get the phone numbers for four months from your…. do you have a subpoena? You need a subpoena counselor. And also, if somebody complains to the State Bar I wonder what they’re going to be answering?
Raymond Carlson: Well, I mean, I’m just telling you what I,
Victor: You need a subpoena counselor (inaudible)
Raymond Carlson: what I, gave my answer. Pardon?
Victor: You need a subpoena (inaudible)
Raymond Carlson: I’m not going to argue with you about it.
Victor: (inaudible) not argue with me, but you do need a subpoena
(Multiple voices)
Public: Clarify this a little bit, records for this place are different than records for a private business.
Victor: I’m talking about Tuolumne Utility District
Public: Well, that’s a public district
Victor: Yes, same as this one
(Multiple voices arguing and stating no)
Victor: Yes
VP Kinsella: OK, OK, you had a question?
Public: I have a question for the lawyer on this, somebody taking this data it’s kind of like yelling fire in a theater when there’s no fire, don’t they have a responsibility to respect the privacy and not be actually using that data just as if I took my shortwave radio and tuned in on something I wasn’t supposed to hear, it’s legal for me to hear it, but not to go out and run my business on it. (Inaudible) Are there further restrictions in getting this data, from the, from the CSD? The data that
Raymond Carlson: Once a number is in the bill, and the bill was a public record it’s part of a public record.
Public: OK, and there’s no further protection?
Raymond Carlson: No, I mean we’re not talking about what was said in the phone, you know, the phone conversation, I mean, we’re not talking about anything like that, we’re talking about it’s just like, it’s just like what people, what people get paid in a public agency is a public record, I mean we might think that’s a private matter, but that’s actually publically a report, it is publically discloseable and has to be disclosed. So I mean if somebody makes a call on a district phone to the Mountain State Pipe and Supply their phone number is on there that, that, it gets into the phone bills, or phone companies’ bill the bill gets sent, that’s a public record. I mean Victor doesn’t agree but you know, that’s OK we don’t
Always agree on every
(Inaudible – Multiple voices):
Victor: (Inaudible) talked with several law enforcement company and I talked to the district attorney in different counties and the answer is this is (inaudible) confidential information and it’s a misdemeanor, quote end of quote.
Raymond Carlson: Ok, I don’t know how a phone number is confidential infor…that’s like saying your address is confidential, is your phone number confidential?
Victor: Yes it is
Raymond Carlson: Why?
Victor: To give to somebody?
(Multiple voices, cross talk)
Raymond Carlson: If the district called you because you didn’t pay and your phone number got into the district records, is that confidential?
Victor: If it’s given to telemarketers or anybody else, yes it’s confidential.
Raymond Carlson: Anybody can make a public records act request
Victor: (inaudible)
Raymond Carlson: Is there an exclusion of the public records act (multiple voices)
Victor: You need a (inaudible) counselor
Raymond Carlson: OK, I’m not going to argue with you
VP Kinsella: OK, OK, OK
Victor: Better not argue with me because you’re going to be talking with the state bar
Public: (multiple voices)
VP Kinsella: Any question from the floor, Peggy?
Peggy: I don’t have a question just a suggestion, can the two of you sort of make a happy medium somewhere, in the sense of saving time because you’re never going to make any (inaudible) out of this
VP Kinsella: This is an obvious fishing expedition and I don’t go for it.
Public: (Inaudible)
Peggy: Well, I mean, I’m sure there’s some responsibility on both parts (inaudible)
VP Kinsella: OK
Public: (inaudible) do a Rodney King-cant’ we all just get along?
VP Kinsella: What is the question? Lew?
Director Richardson: Mr. Gile, what put you onto this?
Kalvin Gile: This gentleman said in the meeting on the 16th if you read it and bemoaned the fact that the telephone situation was out of control to the district
IGM Tynan: Cell phones
Kalvin Gile: Well I didn’t hear the cell phone – I heard telephone, is out of control in the district. In my business, we, as I explained in the first presentation, we did a track on, if you want to make a call we didn’t, we didn’t restrict you, you dialed a number and the telephone company separated that number to the call you made and management got a report back.
Director Richardson: OK, so, so you think with everything you have here, you have evidence of substantial waste to the CSD?
Kalvin Gile: I have evide, of a substantial abuse.
Director Richardson: Abuse? Ok
Kalvin Gile: Not about waste, abuse. I see this as abuse.
Director Richardson: OK, abuse.
Kalvin Gile: My, my people
Director Richardson: Your people?
Kalvin Gile: Yeah, when I, a 113 of them
Director Richardson: 113
Kalvin Gile: They’d use the phone, we restricted the phone
VP Kinsella: OK, what are, what are we going to do with this?
IGM Tynan: Ah Bill?
VP Kinsella: Yes
IGM Tynan: Actually I have to go to the, to the Grand Jury on Friday and I’m very glad and willing to talk with them about this
Kalvin Gile: Well they’re very willing to talk to you about it too
IGM Tynan: Yeah I’m glad they are, I really am
Kalvin Gile: (inaudible)
VP Kinsella: This is an issue for the Grand Jury?
(Multiple voices)
VP Kinsella: Ahh for
Director Richardson: You’re kidding me?
(Multiple voices)
Victor: Dan, you may not discuss anything that you talked to the Grand Jury.
IGM Tynan: Oh I know
Victor: (Inaudible)
IGM Tynan: I can’t say, I can’t say what is said once I meet with them
Victor: Right
IGM Tynan: Once I meet with them I can’t say anything
VP Kinsella: No wonder nothing gets done, geez we’re fighting forest fires for crying out loud. Alright, any other comments, Charise, what’s your pleasure?
Charise Reeves: Ah, the next item is Kathy Agee
AGENDA ITEM K: REQUEST FROM KATHY AGEE (15 Minutes) Request – By Kathy Agee to request a response to her claim
[Kathy Agee is still attempting a refund for the meter reconnection fee she paid to obtain water with a portion of her argument evidently based on the California Constitution. The CSD attorney will study and research new material presented at the meeting by another individual also requesting a refund and will report back at the next meeting on October 17th. The attorney advised he was confident with his first opinion that no refund was required to be made. Ms Agee stated for the record that even if the attorney confirms his original opinion a refund is not required she intends to pursue the matter further. Agee also reiterated her opinion that a director should not publish information about the CSD on a website and that she would still like me to resign as a director.]
AGENDA ITEM L: COUNSEL/MEDIATOR (10 Minutes) Request – By D Tynan to discuss having counsel or a mediator at each meeting
[Continued research into obtaining a mediator for meetings as recommended by the Grand Jury. The attorney suggested contacting JAMS, Judicial Arbitration/Mediation Service, but cautioned it could run approximately $3,000 a meeting. Public suggestion that a legal type mediator may not be needed thus reducing the expense.]
XXXXX 1650 HRS MEETING BREAK XXXXX
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